Curse

Yichi · Jun 14, 2006, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

I'd have to agree.. this thread is just a flame target.

Spikes have ZERO degen, and they just as popular if not more..

Balanced, has a mix of everything.. very very popular in Gvg

Dual smite, no degend here either, just tons and tons of damage.

Pressure Build, does have alot degen but also has AoE.

ViM Build, probably the most amount of degen but isnt that popular.

Bunny Thumpers, has a small amount of degen but is mainly melee damage.

IWAY... the KING of popular builds.. may feature a trap or two, certainly NOT degen.

Conclusion, OP is an idiot.. or a noob.. probably both.

QTF

There are so mant counters to a degen build. for condition degen have an e/mo running extinguish and ether prod = mas condition removal. For hexx degen bring expel hexes on a mesmer, hex removal on monk, convert hexes on a diff char, many options here also.

Just because you cannot counter a degen build, please dont nerf something because you were too lazy to do your homework and figure out a way around it.

Hengis · Jun 14, 2006, 01:35 PM // 13:35

I dont usually post on PVP related matters, as I am a pretty poor PVP player.. I primarily play PVE. My primary ranger usually ends up dead way too fast LOL.

Anyway, last week I decided to give PVP another go and made a new N/Me PVP only chararacter to play some Random Arenas After working on the build for a few days I absolutely love playing a semi-degen based build!

Yes, if an inexperienced warrior spints for you at the beginning of a RA match because they think you are a squishy necro, Imagined Burden, Life Siphon, Life Transfer, Lifebane Strike, Vampric Gaze, interupt Healing Signet with Cry of Frustration, and you often have a dead warrior before he even gets to you. This actually feels pretty good after having my Ranger battered to death so many times in the past.

There are numerous counters to degen though in either health regen or hex removals as others have posted and of course a RA team with a Monk will almost always have the advantage over the team without one.

I do find that this is the most fun build I have played in PVP though. I am still not anywhere near what I would call good (I only have four Gladiator points), but killing the occasional W/Mo and the Toucher Rangers in RA certainly passes some time :-)

Edit: Another thought is that you might be seeing more degen based builds in the lower end PVP areas because of the recent numbers of Touch Rangers you find there. A snare/degen build is extremely effective against Touch Rangers and also happens to be effective against other melee classes as well.

JR · Jun 14, 2006, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

While I too would like tactics to matter more.

Then be good, and play high end GvG.

Dravyn · Jun 14, 2006, 02:01 PM // 14:01

I'd have to agree actually..watching 10 different degen hexes blossom up on your bar in the space of less than two seconds..over and over..is getting old. I spent two days in Fort Aspenwood farming faction and found that as a warrior if I left the green room I was pretty much screwed. I would have so many conditions and degens dumped on me within seconds of coming in sight of the enemy team that I'd be dead before I could close even half the distance.

Actually, in those two days of playing warrior against mage heavy luxon teams, I became quite disgusted that I'd invested so much time in a warrior to begin with. I won't go into what I see as the imbalances, and Im sure you fanbois will flame me to hell and back, but I agree with the OP. Sure, i'm certain in GvG hexes and degens are more controllable, but there are other facets of pvp outside of that arena.

Markaedw · Jun 14, 2006, 03:07 PM // 15:07

As a monk I agree that hexes are a bit overpower, but rather than nerf hexes buff anti hexes.

smite hex 20 seconds cool down
remove hex 7 seconds
convert hexes 20 seconds
holy veil 12 seconds
shatter hex 10 seconds
hex breaker 15 seconds

so I am a mes/nec I load up on the degen, only convert hexes works on all, so I hit you with 3 of my 7, even if you monk has 2 removals I have more hexes and most hexes recharge faster than the removal.

Just decrease the recharge time on hex removal, or make shatter hex and smite hex work on all hexes a person has

Metanoia · Jun 14, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Markaedw, do yourself a favour and look at the energy costs and cooldowns of all the hexes that are actually enough of a threat to be worth removing. Then, do me a favour and slap yourself.

SonofGrenth · Jun 14, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Degen is just a part of the game, get over it

Its not that Uber either...

shadowfawx · Jun 14, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Plague Touch

JR · Jun 14, 2006, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfawx

Plague Touch

This is not Random Arena, and most degen is Hex based, so no; Plague Touch is not 'the' counter to Degen by any stretch of the imagination.

Ole Man Bourbon · Jun 14, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Well, for one, Heal Party can do quite a number on degen.

IMO, the cap on degen at -10 makes it pretty crappy. I've never had much success stacking DOTs in GW, at least vs any kind of decent-healing team. Sure, you can overwhelm things like Troll Unguent and Healing Breeze, but straight-up heals can easily keep up with degen (unless all the healers are shut down, in which case it doesn't matter what kind of damage you're doing, really).

robrobrob · Jun 14, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Man Bourbon

but straight-up heals can easily keep up with degen (unless all the healers are shut down, in which case it doesn't matter what kind of damage you're doing, really).

Bingo.

Tarkin · Jun 14, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irongate

What is it with Guild Wars now?

The whole PvP thing has gone to crap. There are so many degen skills that when you walk into battle you are lucky if you can even reach the other party before you (or they) are dead! Is that what PvP is meant to be all about? Who can cast degen the fastest! What a dumb game!

What happened to using skills in fighting, better attacks at the rear, aiming attacks, combinations etc... At least before factions degen worked in harmony with fighting. There are so many degen skills now and they are so strong that this is all PvP has become, lots of degen skills, what fun.

Start of game --> cast degen, cast degen, cast degen, cast degen, win/lose.

Boring!!! C'mon Anet, is this really how you intended GW to be played?

Melandrus Resilence... FTW...

Markaedw · Jun 14, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metanoia

Markaedw, do yourself a favour and look at the energy costs and cooldowns of all the hexes that are actually enough of a threat to be worth removing. Then, do me a favour and slap yourself.

That's not my point, my point is that a decent caster, can cast faster than any monk can remove them, so monk and mes hex removal needs to be buffed. The cool down time for hex removal is longer than the hex itself. You bet your a$$ a nec/mes or mes/nec is a threat, and when you meet a good one you are dead, end of fight. Now if your group has a monk in it, the monk might be able to keep up, but I have just taken out 2 players.

I cast a major damage, then a cover, wait for the cover to ber removed then cast the rest, dead body, move to the next victim.

If a hex removal skill takes 10-15 seconds to recharge it should take off more than 1 hex.

A good blood mes build can stack the 7 degens on a player giving that player maybe 10 seconds, unless the monk is a dedicated hex remover there is not much he can do, because even if he add healing breeze the degen build has a hidden -10, get rid of the first 10 the hidden second kicks in.

I don't have my build in front of me, but it is based on a nec/mes build in the necro forum. It is really good in the RA where hex removal is rare, and monks even rarer.

My point is rather than nerf degen builds: buff hex removal.

Dislaimer: I also play a monk so I know both sides. My nec hasn't been in the RAs is a while, to busy helping with quests.

Greeneth · Jun 14, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Y'know, too many people use weapons in GW. Y'should nerf them, they suck, I mean, I can't solo a team of eight without dying. Even with mending. It's teh suxx0rzz!!one!!11

Dude, get over yourself, just 'cause You can't do it, doesn't make it nerf worthy. There are bigger problems I'd like to see sorted. Degen is a feature, as is regen is. I guess that's too good, too?

Numa Pompilius · Jun 14, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metanoia

Markaedw, do yourself a favour and look at the energy costs and cooldowns of all the hexes that are actually enough of a threat to be worth removing. Then, do me a favour and slap yourself.

QFT.
Actually I feel that hexes are almost as useless as enchantments after Factions, because there's so many and so effective ways of removing them, and they cost so much and take so long to apply. Expel Hexes, for instance, means your payload gets removed faster than you can apply it even if you're using cover hexes.

But if you're a warrior without backup getting targeted by multiple mesmers/necros, you're still dead. Just like it should be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markaedw

That's not my point, my point is that a decent caster, can cast faster than any monk can remove them

No. You need to try playing a degen build. Make a degen blood necro and run it in RA to see what it can actually do.

Robin_Anadri · Jun 14, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

People, people, people.

Mesmers have an elite called Expel Hexes that removes 2 hexes per ally, costs 5 energy and has an 8 second recharge. Also shatter hex, inspired hex, revealed hex, hex eater signet (a MASS hex removal skill), hex breaker. There's all kinds of monk hex removals.

I'd like to introduce you to my little friend, Mr. Reality.

You're going to face hexes, prepare for them. Don't whine about it.

Gargle Blaster · Jun 14, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markaedw

A good blood mes build can stack the 7 degens on a player giving that player maybe 10 seconds, unless the monk is a dedicated hex remover there is not much he can do, because even if he add healing breeze the degen build has a hidden -10, get rid of the first 10 the hidden second kicks in.

ok one pip of degen is 2 health per sec... so at max thats only 200 health in 10 sec ... it should also be noted that degen hexes only last for around 10 sec. There is somthing else that is causing you to die in less than 10 sec... -unless you only have 200 health.

Ray · Jun 14, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Healing Breeze!

unienaule · Jun 14, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metanoia

If, in a game of Rock-Paper-Scissors, Jill keeps chosing Rock and beats your Scissors. Do you:

a) Nerf Rock so that Scissors beats Rock.
b) Choose Rock, too.
c) Choose Paper, which beats Rock.

Clearly you choose A.

Seriously though, choosing Rock in the metaphorical sense that you run what keeps beating you isn't actually a bad idea, because then you'll learn:
1) Why they stomp you so fast
2) What it is that really screws up the build
3) Improvements to either their build or your original one to help you counter it more effectively.

It's not for nothing that the old saying still persists, "If you can't beat em, join em."

Shadow-Hunter · Jun 14, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metanoia

If, in a game of Rock-Paper-Scissors, Jill keeps chosing Rock and beats your Scissors. Do you:

a) Nerf Rock so that Scissors beats Rock.
b) Choose Rock, too.
c) Choose Paper, which beats Rock.

You would nerf Rock ofc.. Becouse its soo unfair that you cant keep using scissors yourself and win everytime..

~Shadow